Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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TheImpCaiman
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Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by TheImpCaiman »

Found a nice little article where Jim Johnston speaks about today's WWE music. Wasn't sure where to post it but if no one has it is a nice small discussion or possibly insert taken from the podcast itself. I'd have to agree with him on what he says. Today's WWE music isn't what it used to be and it is pretty bad. The themes don't necessarily stand out as much as they should. He does not bad mouth the composers really but he makes a good solid point. Out of all the composers who have worked with WWE for me CFO$ is still the ones I do not like as much. def rebel in my opinion is doing a much better job and it is one artist I'd disagree with him a little bit. They are at least doing what he, Jimmy Hart and JJ Maguire done in the past. All the themes do fit each wrestler and their gimmick. Anyway feel free to read and comment on the article.

https://www.pwmania.com/jim-johnston-sa ... -is-so-bad
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by Leaf »

I do believe that Jim Johnston's view on the matter is biased and short-sighted. Of course he's more of a movie score guy, which heavy influences from 20th century music, but most of his criticism doesn't actually reflect on the music that is being made. If the music sounds much more plastic, more beefed then it's because the producers who are making them have experience in the mainstream pop industry - CFO$ were ghost engineers for a lot of Billboard hit songs, and DJDTP work for big clients such as Netflix, Viacom, Disney - having a sound that is in line with the market is definitely going to sell more than a score like Sting, Undertaker's themes. But that's not to say they haven't done so as well...
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by Jerichoholic »

I'm pretty sure OP doesn't like CFO$ and this is totally new to me.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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It's a classic case of someone from an older generation complaining about what's going on nowadays. I respect his opinion about the music, but his whole attitude about it sucks.

"I hate to say this, but there’s a certain satisfaction that the music (in WWE) now is so bad. Because it makes me feel better about what I did contribute."
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by TheImpCaiman »

I agree too. He does try to brush it off by saying in a manner of speaking he's not trying to belittle the other composers but he technically still does. He does have one thing correct though. Some of the WWE music after his departure does not have that cinema-like quality. def rebel does a great job though in my opinion and all of their music is cinema style like music. All of their music fits each superstar/wrestler perfectly and is hard to place on anyone other than who the theme was meant for. They are doing exactly what Jimmy Hart and Jim Johnston and JJ Maguire did. They seem to have a good feel for the character and write themes that fit them. Alexa Bliss and Toni Storm themes fit them very well. Could he possibly be upset at being let go still? I don't know. Interesting interview though.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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Right on, Jim.
No one in WWE can hold a candle to what I can do, inside these FOUR ROPES.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by max »

I know this is a recent article but am I imagining it that he's made these same comments somewhere else? This sounds really familiar.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by Leaf »

max wrote: March 8th, 2021, 10:36 pm I know this is a recent article but am I imagining it that he's made these same comments somewhere else? This sounds really familiar.
He's never changed his view since he started doing interviews, that's why it feels familiar.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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acousticequalizer
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by acousticequalizer »

The WWE characters of today have so much less depth than those in the past. I can see why it's more difficult to write themes for them. I'm not going to pretend that Jim didn't write lots of themes I absolutely loathed either tbh. However I do see where he's coming from. I'd say that Def Rebel has yet to make any themes that I think will go down as classics but they've only been around for a short while. However a lot of their themes do sound very production/stock like music to me. Just my opinion though. Lots of people loved the CFO$ themes and I can count the number of ones I liked on one hand. Again not putting down anyone who likes their work, I just don't ok lol.

Rukus is way, way better than Def Rebel and CFO$ though imo. His pseudo Bullet Club theme blows away anything Def Rebel has done. Dale Oliver was way better too.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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acousticequalizer wrote: March 9th, 2021, 2:39 am Dale Oliver was way better too.
A considerable number of Oliver's themes were ripoffs from real songs though.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by acousticequalizer »

Jerichoholic wrote: March 9th, 2021, 3:12 am
acousticequalizer wrote: March 9th, 2021, 2:39 am Dale Oliver was way better too.
A considerable number of Oliver's themes were ripoffs from real songs though.
That's true but he also had plenty of, to my knowledge, original songs that I still listen to. Bobby Roode's "Off the Chain" Orchestral theme is still one of my all time favorite themes. Another Me, Fire & Brimstone, Down in the Catacombs, Longnecks & Rednecks, Hands of the Wicked, Feedback, Puppets on a String etc..all great
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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Chris wrote: March 8th, 2021, 3:05 pm It's a classic case of someone from an older generation complaining about what's going on nowadays. I respect his opinion about the music, but his whole attitude about it sucks.

"I hate to say this, but there’s a certain satisfaction that the music (in WWE) now is so bad. Because it makes me feel better about what I did contribute."
I'm not necessarily defending Jim's remark there, because I imagine it definitely stings the folks at both CFO$ and def rebel. But I will suggest that perhaps that statement is coming from a place of hurt over WWE and/or Vince McMahon deciding to move on musically, without his input. I think it would be hard not to take a decision like that personally, especially when you've given more than 30 years of your career and life to an employer.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by Chris »

Absolutely, and having those feelings is totally valid. I just think that holding onto that grudge is what is affecting his ability to see things from an objective standpoint. I'm not saying it's wrong for him to feel that way, but because he feels that way he's not able to see the whole picture and just sees the part that involves the company moving on past him.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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Most likely in response to this, Mikey Rukus has been Tweeting really positive things to and about Anthony Mirabella from Def Rebel
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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Chris wrote: March 9th, 2021, 2:02 pm Absolutely, and having those feelings is totally valid. I just think that holding onto that grudge is what is affecting his ability to see things from an objective standpoint. I'm not saying it's wrong for him to feel that way, but because he feels that way he's not able to see the whole picture and just sees the part that involves the company moving on past him.
That's a very fair interpretation.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by TheImpCaiman »

Not a big fan of any of the AEW music yet that Ruckus wrote. Dale Oliver at least had some decent ones though. Love Dale Oliver's Christian theme that was based off that Evenesence song and I liked Dale Oliver's Sting theme and a few others. Mikey Ruckus hasn't yet found that it factor yet to make him stand out yet. To me his themes do sound a lot like generic themes at the moment. Have to wait to see if he does anything exciting because some of the talent and some gimmicks he has to work with are pretty decent. WWE right now doesn't have as powerful of gimmicks as they've had before in all of their talent making it harder for composers to compose decent themes for them. def rebel has done and amazing job at it so far though so got to give them credit for that.

I feel for Jim Johnston and perhaps Hart and Maguire too. They've been doing this a lot longer than others and they're used to doing it the way they've been doing it for years and it has always worked and would still work if the characters were there. Jim at least doesn't appear to see the change of the times in wrestling which would also see a need for a change in how everything, including the music is done. For what it is worth if you look at it today most composers stick to a familiar beat, time frame and sometimes key when writing music and that is where it would start to get bad. You have to have some different elements in music or else it gets boring listening to it over and over again.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by Funkster »

i think the thing here is, the music is supposed to get an emotional reaction, cheering or booing for whoevers music starts playing.

I have an emotional attachment to a lot of the older themes, because they mean something to me, be it my favourite wrestler or its my favourite track because i was watching WWE & i had an emotional investment in it.

you guys could play me a list of themes done for the last 6-7 years & i wouldnt care about the music, nor could i identify who's music it was because i have no investment in it, they dont mean anything to me because i no longer watch.

there has been a shift in the music, you can tell its not the same as when Jim was doing the music. & personally speaking, i dont think its been for the better.

Add in theres no crowds just now, its really hard to tell if a certain track works for a certain wrestler. though i dont think WWE puts that much emphasis on that as much as they used to.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

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ConchairtoRecords wrote: March 9th, 2021, 3:04 pm Most likely in response to this, Mikey Rukus has been Tweeting really positive things to and about Anthony Mirabella from Def Rebel
I posted the link a little earlier on the thread.
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Re: Jim Johnston Lucha Libre Online on today's WWE music being bad

Post by ConchairtoRecords »

Jerichoholic wrote: March 9th, 2021, 5:00 pm
ConchairtoRecords wrote: March 9th, 2021, 3:04 pm Most likely in response to this, Mikey Rukus has been Tweeting really positive things to and about Anthony Mirabella from Def Rebel
I posted the link a little earlier on the thread.
My apologies, I hadn't seen that.

I like the fact that - even though they work for different companies and, for all we know, don't actually know each other in the real world - Mikey and Bella have a respect for each other as artists.
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